Finding community in a divided world

In a world that often feels divided, how do we find connection? This week, we’re talking about friendship, community, and what it means to truly belong—even when we don’t all think the same way. From making friends as adults to finding common ground in unexpected places, we’re unraveling how to build meaningful relationships in a time when it’s easier than ever to feel disconnected.

The Weekly Unravel is a podcast about motherhood, midlife, perimenopause, and everything in between. Join friends Heather and Sarah as they navigate life’s twists and turns with tea, humor, honesty, and absolutely no expertise.

Follow the show so you never miss an episode, and connect with us on Instagram @theweeklyunravelpodcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Weekly Unravel, where we talk about life, motherhood, and midlife out loud with tea and humor and zero expertise. Hi, and welcome back to another episode of the Weekly Unravel. Hey Heather. Hey, how's it going? It's going. How have you been? Um, pretty good. Let's see. Um, what's new? I didn't think about this beforehand. So you're saying every well, I I uh I can catch you up first. You can catch me up, catch me up. Okay. So first thing, I I know I mentioned a couple weeks ago that my dad was having a cancer scare. Um, so he has gotten his biopsy, he's gotten the results back. There is cancer. However, they're saying it is not a significant amount, which was confusing to my mind because I kind of feel like any amount of cancer. Yeah, but it's but it's like how bad is it? Is it back on the treatment? Exactly. And like they weigh against the side effects versus so um he's a watch and monitor, so no surgery, no chemo, but he's he's good. So we're over that hurdle, which is great because that's scary. Um, and you know, the words we were hearing were scary. So that was a really I'm excited. I'm excited, excited that that's that's yeah, kind of clear. And we'll watch and monitor and that's free. But that's like a pew relief. Yeah. Um, summer break, we're home with kids, everything is you know the a place for everything and nothing in its place. Yeah. So we just got back. We took a trip to Ocean City uh in Maryland. I have a friend who has a little beach house down there. We went to go spend some time and visit them. I just took the kids without my husband, so it was cool. I think that's the longest road trip I've ever driven by myself. I don't know. With the kids, it's about a five and a half hour. Okay, it's a decent ride. It's a decent, yeah, it's a decent ride with kids, is you know, yeah, it's even a lot. Yeah, well, I don't let my kids do screens in the car because they'll get car sick. Oh, really? Yeah, and and I a lesson learned the hard way. Oh, my son used to get car sick and not so much anymore, which is very helpful. Yeah, no, we played count the number of red cars and i spy a long time. Yeah, but we, you know, and the good thing is my kids like music. Like I like music, so we you know, we DJ on Spotify and we're we're good. It was a good, it was a good ride, it was a good trip. We had so much fun, they hung with their friends, but we were like way off schedule. The eating was dicey at best. Um, and a lot of screen time, it was the weather really wasn't so great. Oh, that's hard when you're away because there's nothing else to do. Yeah, so sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And uh we were so we were a little, a little dysregulated, and the last night we were there, my boys got in a little argument, and my son, who's been struggling with, you know, his mental health, had the most major breakdown I have ever seen him have. Um, fortunately, my friend is a clinical social worker, she works in residential settings, so she's kind of trained in these de-escalation and all of that. Um, but it was it was really scary and it was really uh I don't know, all overwhelming. Overwhelming to see him like that. Um, but we we got him calm, we got him to sleep. Thank you, melatonin gummies. And um, so the next day I drove home and got up and I just got him right in the car and we're driving home. And I kind of like in my head, like, okay, I'm just muscling through this and it's past me. But the second we got within like 15-ish, you know, of a five and a half hour, six hour drive, as soon as we got within like 15 minutes of home, like when it felt like I was in my neighborhood at home, I started crying. Yeah, and you're you know, and you realized like finally breathe and like we're safe, and I got them here because like there was a point I thought we were gonna have to like call an ambulance and and be, you know, stuck. Until you can actually release and process and have the feelings. Yeah. Um, so that's a lot. So I just you know kind of reached out to his team and we gotta, you know, make some changes in in treatment and and what we're doing. But it's uh it's a long road when a a kid is is this struggling from such a young age. Yeah. Um, and I like to sometimes take that on as a mom and you feel uh you know what? I take my good days and I want to believe that's all the days they are. And then when something like this pops up, it's like, oh no, this is still here and it's still gonna be here, and we still have to deal with it. So that was that was my so dad is good, son is still struggling. Work in progress. Work in progress. I mean, and he's such a you have a good team that you like, yeah. Well, we uh so we need to change therapist. It's just not a good fit. We're just not we're not vibing and her availability isn't great. So I've I've reached out to um his coordinator to work on that. Um, but you know, we we we keep on keeping on. But not that it was funny, but what what broke it, what what took him out of his freak out was my friend's daughter knocked on the door where we were, and we said, Hey, we just we just need a minute, hon. Like we just need a minute. And she closed the door and she went upstairs and she started hysterical crying.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

You sent me away. I want my mom.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

And my son could hear her crying. Oh and because in his heart of hearts, he is just such a kind, sensitive person, yeah, feeling like he hurt somebody else, that snapped him right out of it.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

And it's just my heart for him, you know, because he is he is such a loving kid and I just I just feel like empathy. He hopped in and was like, oh, wait a minute. It like took over whatever. Like a 180. Yeah. It's kind of amazing. It was it was incredible to see it happen just like in a second. Like we had been struggling with him for like 45 minutes. A long time. And that just the second he heard her cry, it was like, okay, I gotta get my shit together. Wow. Yeah. So, but it shows me like, okay, you have some control. Yeah, we just need to g have you the right tools to utilize that and to access that. Exactly. So that kind of was a positive spot. Yeah. Yeah. How are your how is your summer vacation life? So let's see. Um, I talked a little bit about it last time, but some one really good thing. Um I had a conference in the city for two days, an Alexander Technique conference. And I haven't been to one in a couple of years, actually, I haven't been to one since my daughter was a baby, so it was almost seven years. Um, and it was so great to go and be with colleagues and other people that do what I do and be in that conversation and see my teacher that taught me for three years and that I'm really, really close to, and I got to like have lunch with her and go for a walk with her. And um, it just felt like two days of me using my adult brain and nobody needed me. So there's like the part where I was with all these people and immersed in that world, and the part where I'm also just nobody needs me for a snack or dinner, I don't think about anybody else's feelings except my own. So, like the two of those things combined, like nobody meeting me and then being able to immerse myself with other adults and colleagues and and make choices that are just for me was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. It was so good. And I realized I really need to do that more. Um, whether it's like an actual conference or just going in and I don't know, doing some more continuing ed kind of stuff for me, you know, because I used to do that stuff a lot. I love learning, I love going to workshops, all that stuff, and it's harder to do now. And it was just so nice to be there. It was really, it was very nice to just be immersed in that. And then I came back feeling like filled up, right? You know, which was so nice. Yeah. Um, so that was great. Um, I'm just gonna briefly mention a really bad thing, which is which I did tell Sarah this right before we started this podcast, and I wasn't gonna mention it, but I'm just gonna vaguely mention that we found some undesirable bugs in our kitchen. Oh, don't go into many details. Some squatters. You had some squatters. Um freaked me out, and my nervous system has been like ramped up for like two days now. We are dealing with the problem, and the problem, when everybody hears this, is hopefully gone forever. But so I've been cleaning out the kitchen and you know, at least we're like taking things out of the cabinet, getting rid of things, starting over, doing a cleanse, and trying to find a silver line. Oh my god. Like the kitchen is a central point of life. Making food, we're eating our meals, and of course, um being finding some surprising little guests and freaking out and not feeling like safe in there, you know, is a horrendous feeling. It's weird to feel like violated in your own space. Violated. Like, how dare you? Exactly. I did, and thank God the kids don't know. Yeah. Because it's not that obvious and it's not like this massive problem that's everyone can see, you know. Right. So they don't need to know because and then I would have to deal with their feelings about it, and they one of them particularly would have big feelings about that. And like, I can't handle that because I'm freaking out about my own nervous system on overdrive about this. So it's been hard, it's being dealt with. Okay, but it has sort of overtaken my body in the last few days. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just want to throw up all over the place. Anyway, so uh ready to move on. How I have to ask, I know what you're talking about. How what's going on with your um home project? Are we are we on track? Are we on track? Because I'm curious. So the contractor is gone, like done or like fired? Oh my god, I didn't get an update. Okay. Okay. He basically bailed on the project. He was like, F U I quit? Not FUI quit, but like, I'm sorry, I overestimated, I underestimated the price and the time that it would take to do this. And I he can't afford to keep going because he didn't, it's a whole big thing. So could he just like adjust how much? So he it so he came to us two months ago and said, I underestimated something. I actually need this much more money. And we have had had a good relationship with him, and we said, Okay, that's fine. We gave him that more money. Right. And not a lot got done after that. A little bit got done after that. The sighting started. Right. Um, but then I we started feeling like he just wasn't showing up, he wasn't being honest about why he wasn't showing up, and he didn't say anything until I finally called him out on it. I'm like, what's going on? Are you working on other projects? You said you were gonna be here every day, you're not here, you said you were coming yesterday, you didn't come, you said you were coming this morning. What's going on? Right. And that's when he kind of fessed up to what's going on. But it made me feel like we can't trust him anymore. So even if he said at that point, well, if it's actually gonna cost us much more money, I screwed up, I shouldn't have whatever it was. Right, we can't trust him anymore. Of course. If he had explained it two months ago, like he did before, that would have been different. But it's like I we can't trust the situation anymore. So he said, We're probably gonna have to find someone else because you're not finishing this. And he was kind of like, Okay, I understand. I'm like, that's not the answer I wanted. I want to just say, No, I screwed up and I'm gonna finish it. But he's like financially, he just like doesn't have the money. Yeah, it's so messy because we like him, but he totally screwed us. If he handled it better, we might still be having him finish it. But we, my husband and I know somebody else that is a contractor, and maybe we should have around with him in the first place. But he already came in, looked at everything. He's got a crew that's ready to do it. Perfect. And we know him and we feel confident without moving forward. So yeah, so the other guy's gone, and right here we are. My God, someone new starting next week to finish the project. Yeah, it's crazy. I'm so sorry. Like the all of this unstress stress and all this time that has passed was just unnecessary. If it had been handled better, it wouldn't just do like, and I have to say, like, you know what, the way things have been lately with certain economic things going on in the world, my husband's a contractor, you know. It has been hard to make an estimate. But here's the thing you either go back to the client and say, Listen, things have changed. Yes, there was a tariff imposed or there was a straight cloud, like and things have changed and we respected if we gave them a word. Well, clearly that worked with us. So why not or you again to yourself? Okay, lesson learned. I messed up, but I gotta eat this because I have to live up to my word. Exactly. Because your word matters. So neither of those two happened. And so it ended in like this total unnecessary mess. Well, I'm glad it's over. I'm glad somebody else is in, and I can't wait to see the tiebeck wrapping up. In a month, and we might have a house without hybrid. Seems so exciting. We'll have a good interview. Oh my god. All right, let's get on to today's topic. So today's topic, speaking of um our fancy word. Yeah. It's you to go with it. So our topic today that we're gonna talk about is building community for ourselves and for our kids to grow up in and how that's changed in just our modern dynamic and also with the divided state that we're currently living in. And supporting our topic today, we have uh peace tea by Puka for balance tranquility. It's with spirit, ashwagandha, and hemp seed oil. I really like it. I didn't know how that was gonna be, but I like some I love mint. So there's a little bit of that like minty sweetness in there. I like it. That's perfect. Ashwagandha is very good for calming the nervous system. Um, let's see what it tells us. It says it's it's perfect for balance, tranquility, stillness settles in those who discover their true center. Oh, great. Yeah. So you know how centered I feel. Yeah, how do you feel? And I think when we're centered in ourselves, then we can better connect with others, right? We got to know our starting point. So just looking at our our modern, let's compare and contrast, right? Like what was so tell me a little bit, what was your kind of village like growing up? What was your community centered around? Um, well, I would say a few different things. So for like for me as a little kid or like teenagers? Like from little kid to teenage. Okay. So, well, school, yeah, friends in school, um, Hebrew school, because I went all the way from Hebrew school up to Bot Pittsford. So I had a lot of friends from being forced to go to Hebrew. Um but I did make really good friends there. And then I was a dancer, so like friends in my dance community. So it was kind of like in all those activities and places that I spent my time. And I made good friends in all of those places and you know, yeah, like have stayed connected to people a while. Like, were your parents connected with those people? Like really like friends and friends kind of a thing. No. Well, I feel like it wasn't a lot of my my parents and us hanging out as little, it's it's different. Like we have play dates now. Right back then, like I would go across the street to my best friend's house and just hang out with her. My mom didn't need to be there. There wasn't that was at her house, and I was really lucky that you know she was my best friend, she lives across the street, and so it wasn't how it is now. Right, like that like social engineering. Right. They really weren't involved. It was like I would go to school and I had my friends, and then I'd go to their house, and there was just more, way more dropping off at friends' houses than there is now. Right. And in the Hebrew school, my parents knew some of that community because it was like we're in a community at the temple and we would yeah, do do things there. So there was community in that aspect. They didn't know any of my dance friends' parents, right? You know, so yeah, no, it's just like that not, yeah, it was like me and those people, yeah, basically. You got to build your own relationship. So for me growing up, um, similarly with church and youth group, right? And like those were my parents were pretty strict, I think, because I was the first, it was the oldest and a girl, so they were a little like hyper protective. So there was like church youth group, and I think they felt comfortable, not that they were super good friends with those kids' parents, but that they knew them, like trusted their values, like not that I don't know if they trusted, but they knew them, like they'd seen their faces before. Yeah, and then um Girl Scouts. So those were my yeah, it was like such a horrible nerd. Um, but it's girls. It's like an adorable dork. It was such an adorable that's a comp adorable dork. Um, so yeah, so we had youth group being a dork. Youth group, girl scouts, um, school. And I what I loved about my school that I don't unfortunately have where I live now is my community was very diverse. Yeah. So I got people from all races, creeds, walks. Um, that was great. That was a great experience of community. Um and my gosh, it just felt brain. Did you have a god? I'm having a period. A real life. We're not editing this out. This is real, like I can feel like right here in my head, like a hole in my brain that just is going like womp womp, womp. Yeah. So we had school community, church community, girls, girls, family, and family. My dad is one of six kids. My mom's one of only three, but growing up, everybody was on the island I had a ton of cousins, and my house was kind of like the house. Um, we had a nice pool and a swing set that my dad built that was like incredible. We used to my cousins and I was I had two cousins who were um close to my and my sister's age, and we in the summer would like pitch a tent in my backyard and like camp out. And like so, those were like really fun memories. And and like you said, just the neighborhood kids coming down the street to play and just hanging out. I remember when my dad built my playground, a truck came and delivered like all this pea gravel in my driveway. We had all the kids in the neighborhood with like buckets just like carrying it to fill up like the ground. But they were like, Yeah, we'll do this. We get the neighborhood kids, what it was all about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh different now, yeah, completely. Um, and and I think for a few reasons. First of all, we're so independent, and I think we've kind of lost like where we used to have like like the commons, right? Like the shared spaces that we would have. Like we just we both just talked about your Hebrew school. Do you go to do you go to temple now? No, no, we don't have our kids in any religious. No, nor nor do I. So we don't have that community, and there's been times I've considered like something like what are the what is the universal Unitarian? Yes, I've looked at it. Yeah, like something like that. Just just to give them something. Um because we're we're so much more isolated, we're so hyper-scheduled. Like my kids are in Boy Scouts, little league, music lessons. Like we're like just going. Like even if they wanted to just wander down the street, it's who's got time for that? Yeah. And explain to me, Heather, why do I have to be friends with all my kids' friends, parents' friends? Like, why I don't. But this is part of this discussion now. Yeah. Because should I say more now or should I wait? Um you can think of people say more now because we're just gonna kind of talk about the state of like where we're at. So I feel like when they're younger, because of the way things are now, we're having play dates, we're not dropping your five-year-old off at somebody's house that you don't know. Right. So it's really nice when you are friends with them because it makes your life easier because you can hang out with them for this amount of time. Yeah. And I feel like we went through, I feel like now I feel very lucky that I have some, some of the kids' friends have parents that I am actually friends with. And so that I feel very lucky for that. That's not the case with all their friends, but there are some. And so we try to get those kids together more because I like these parents and want to hang out with these parents and we like the values of these parents and all that stuff. Yeah. Um, so but it, but that took a while. Yeah. So now my kids are 10 and 7. So I feel like there was so much time, they're like four, five, six, where it's like, okay, we're gonna have a play date, we're gonna go there. I'm like, oh god, just have two or three. And then you don't know like this parent. Do I bring a snack? Do I bring a bottle of wine? Always bring a snack. I feel like that's always the answer. Right. You can't go wrong with bringing a snack. Um, but it's yeah, it's awkward because it's like I don't want to have to sit and talk to you for three hours. Uh it's very nice when number one, you become friends with the parents, like real friends, or number two, now they're old enough that you feel comfortable dropping somebody off if you know them and trust them whatever. The drop-off is amazing if you have people you feel comfortable doing that with. Right. So it's like a whole layered thing around friends, friends' parents, the whole thing. So and I think that a challenge that we see now, or at least that I felt very acutely, is how divided we are ideologically on on many different fronts, mainly politically is a big one. Um, we also have like the vaccination issues that come up. So to share for me personally, um, when my kids started kindergarten and like they're entering like a new cohort and I get to meet people for the first time. I was also running for a town council as a Democrat. Um they were in kindergarten. They were going into kindergarten. And I just remember when the signs started going up around town with my name on them and just hoping nobody was making the connection because I live in a very Republican town.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

And, you know, we went through this phase like after COVID, right? Everybody was kind of ripped apart and like in their corners. And it like if I walked down the street and you had a mask on or didn't have a mask on, I knew so much about you, right? And we had all these assumptions and we got really nasty because we were all just online and yeah, and instead of dealing face to face with people, we were fighting archetypes and assumptions, right? So when I had a lot of assumptions made about who people are based on one thing about them. Yeah. Some of those assumptions are probably true, but some of them are not. Some of them are true, some of them are not. And like, yeah, and people are layered, right? We're not all just one thing. Yep. But so I my kids started kindergarten and I was very much guards up, and I was still in an angry place with the whole thing. I was still very um, I was okay with being very divided. And I would like look up people's voter registration before like my kid came home, like, oh, I really like talking to Oliver. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna look up Oliver's mommy. Yeah, let's see what they're doing. Um, and that's crazy. Like realistically, yeah, that's that's like that. That's what my school I've been living in. Like, and I have to realize, like, wow, like that's really sad. That's really sick. Like, that's I like that's not healthy for for anybody. Um, so I I connected. Well, so my kids did baseball, and I actually made a lot of friends, mom friends through that. We made like this kind of nice little group. Like, I like everybody, I'm like, they're good. But this one woman in particular I kind of got close with, and I had looked her up. She's a registered Democrat. I'm like, great, she's cool. Yeah. So time goes on, we're class moms together. She's my husband's assistant coach for Little League, and like we just get really like groovy together. I'll watch her kid, she'll watch my kid. Like, we have fun together. We go out for Drinks together. Like we're good. So we're out one night and we're talking about something. And she says, Well, you know I voted for Trump. And I just kind of like, oh, I'm sorry, you do why. But like here's the thing. So you have like a whole paradigm shift around you, like everything I thought I knew about you. Yeah. Like you were like, you're my wife. You're my baseball wife. What happened? So, but like here's the thing. Like, we've had conversations before. I know that she's not homophobic. I know that she's not anti-trends. I know that she's not a racist. So, like, all like the big ticket things that make me like, whoa. She's not any of those things. Like, she's not the things, cruel things that would for me be like deal breaker. Like, I can't like homophobic or right. Because you're just not right. We're not on the same level. So I asked her, I said, okay, why? Like you voted for him, why? Yeah. Um, and she said, honestly, it just came down to money. Economically, I did better. And she's a single mom.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Works for herself. And I said, Well, you know what? Like, not everybody has the luxury of voting their principles all the time. Yeah. They're suffering because they do have the privilege that you or I have. And she was suffering and she needed what would help her financially. Exactly. Yeah. And it really opened my eyes to like, wow, maybe I've really been an asshole. Like, it's good to have that realization. I've really been a jerk. And like why you're a good person. Because you can reflect and say and look at yourself. And you know, and honestly, like I'm tired of like, I'm just tired of being angry and I'm tired of hating and I'm tired of judging. I'm tired of becoming what I am against. Yeah. To be against it. Yeah. Uh so we kind of laughed, and our our round of drinks came. And I said, Well, cheers, you trumpy cunt. And and that was it. And we moved on and like we're good. Yeah. We're good. Um, so it's kind of shifted my perspective. Yeah. But it there are still landmines out there. And I know like there are people who are gonna listen to this and be like, oh my God, she's a Democrat gross. Like, I don't want to hear her anymore. Or the opposite, they're gonna be like, she's there. I already know that they're gonna judge you, not judging that person more because I mean. No, it's true. I know. I know it's true, and like I've seen it like when um after the October 7th attacks, right? Like even among progressive to progressive, oh, yeah, the way people were talking and dehumanizing each other for disagreements. And like sometimes it wasn't even like a major disagreement, it was like one word in your sentence I don't agree with. Like, we have to stop. Like we just have to stop, it's just making everything worse. Yeah. So have you had any experiences like with friends that you've kind of come across and how you've bridged that or not bridged it? So I will say that most of the friends that I am close to are like-minded politically. Yep. Um, and that's just what I have drawn to myself. But I do have some people that I do feel close to in my life that I am 99% sure voted for Trump. And there was a moment, especially when he was re-elected, where I was like having a lot of strong feelings about the fact that he was re-elected and how angry uh I was and all the things, all the feelings. And I had a hard time like reconciling that with people that I think are good people and that I like and that voted for him because of what I think are all of his policies and qualities that make him a horrible person, to put it lightly. Um and I'm just not I'm just not there anymore. And I'm really glad because the like I have have a few people in mind. I'm like, these are good people.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

These are people that I trust with my kids. Right. You know, like that's what matters to me. I trust you with my kids. You trust me with your kids. That's all that matters because we're living in a community and this is our day-to-day life. And us being good people that help each other out and that love each other and care about each other and care about each other's kids, like that's actually what matters in my life right now. That's what matters in my life. If this discussion was coming up, if like political discussions were coming up more regularly, something there, I don't know, might shift, right? But I don't want it to come up because it's not necessary, right, for me to know that you're a good human being. And I also know because I know that these are good human beings, good mothers, good people, that whatever their reasons are, are their reasons that make sense to them. And maybe they got different sets of information than I got because social media is also targeting everybody and giving people different sets of information. So we have to be aware of like that world that we live in.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

And there are some things that I probably agree with.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Like there are some points that I agree with with some people that voted differently than me, or that, or like people that like RFK Jr., I may not agree with the choice that he is the best person to be in charge of our health, but I agree with some of the things that he wants to do. Or like getting dyes out of our food. And, you know, there are certain things that are like it's just nuanced. It's not simple. And so yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with it. Like it's just messy and nuanced, and I'm no longer going to just allow myself to just be sitting on what side angry and judging everybody else. You know, like that's not helpful. That's not what we're all trying to create. And when we can see people coming together, like you and your friend, like you have this great relationship, you feel like you're like-minded because you are, and then you find out this information that she voted for someone different. It doesn't change who she is, it doesn't change who you guys are to each other, and like how nice that that can exist. You know that's there, and it doesn't matter. Because she had really good reasons for her vote because she's a single mom who's struggling. Right. That is how she survives. Right. So that's yeah, yeah. And and and for me, if you love my kids, that goes a really long way. Like loving on my child, exactly. That goes that goes a long way for me with yeah, you know, like the there are there deal breakers that I I cannot get past up. Like, if you think that COVID was fake, if you think the 2020 election was rigged, if I just I can't, like we're not it's a some things are a bridge too far. And I feel like that's okay, yeah, but I also don't have to hate you. I can just say, you know, we're not gonna hang out. That's just not for me. Yeah, like that's just not for me. But if we can respectfully agree to disagree, yes, exactly, and move on. And I know your heart is is in the right place with certain things that you're not a hateful person, you're not a racist person, you're not an abusive person, then all right, then we can just agree that economically we don't see eye to eye, we don't agree on policy, and that's okay. And I think you know, God, can we get back to that? Can we get back to intellectualism and like because I don't like I never had issues with Republicans, no issues with agree, mega agree, like culty people, sure. That it's just a different thing. Yeah, it's a totally different thing. Absolutely, even people that voted for him are not necessarily in the mega mega cult, right? You know, so yeah, I would love to be able to get back to just different policies and political ideas and not have it be a cult. Yeah, and like you show me your research, I'll show you my we'll compare data sets. Exactly. And that's good. It doesn't have to be such a moral judgment, yeah, and such so hate fueled. And like, let's be honest, the hate's coming from both sides, and we can pat ourselves on the back and say our hate is righteous. Yes. And in some cases it is, yes. But in some cases, we're just high on it and we're forming our own cult. Yeah. So I I hear you on that. And yeah, I'm gonna get my head served to me on a plate. I know, right? But like, and I'm so far left. Like, I'm like hanging out, like I'm on like the AOCs or I'm on Donnie. Like, I couldn't go hang out with Bernie and have a nice dinner party with Bernie and AOC. Yeah, I couldn't be more, but I just feel like it's so it's funny and talk about like opening yourself up. I am very anti-religion. I think that I think that divides us. I yeah, it's to a degree. And I've always just been very against religious institutions. But when I decided to not be into politics but form a more peaceful, meaningful way of resisting, and I started volunteering um with a Catholic organization that does um the immigration work, the immigration work, right? Um, and I have fallen in love with nuns, like they are the sweet, like I love them so much, and I love the work that they do. They're doing good work. They're doing good work. I love what they stand for, I love who they are as people, and but their like slogan is what if compassion is the answer? So I look that's a good group, right? Like they're not all like that. No, but I look they are very but like I look at like where we are in the world with like the division and the hate and the anger and the misinformation, yeah, like and the lies that everybody's being fed. What if compassion is the answer? What if me seeing a person as a person and being able to reach to them camps down that extremism? It is the answer because it feels better for us. And it builds connection. Yeah. So it's yeah. And I um have you seen your kids be affected by the division and by like that rhetoric? Yes. Um, mostly around election time. Yeah. I remember this one day because they don't they weren't allowing election talk like during classroom time, obviously a recess, whatever, you know, there's so much they can do, but it was like a day or two before the election, and these kids were coming in chanting like troom, chomp troom, and it really upset my son. I bet that way. I said, I bet, I bet. Oh, I bet, yeah. So he he he just found it like unnecessary and obnoxious, and plus he's learned some things about yeah, him that he doesn't like and he's got some of his own beliefs that are starting and whatever. So that was really upsetting, and it was upsetting to me because the people that were not voting for him were not coming in and chanting. It was just, you know, people that were chanting for him. And so yeah, he he was upset. He didn't really know what to do with that. Yeah. Um, and then I think it was like the day before maybe the election, and then a few days after his teacher called me and he said, you know, Benjamin's been been like a little quiet and then a little down today. And she love his teacher he had that year. And so she chatted with him and he talked, and it, you know, we all moved on. It was fine. But um, I think he was just feeling the effects of whatever was coming in the classroom with the kids of the parents who were really excited.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

You know, so it's like kids don't need to know anything about this. This isn't theirs, but they find out about it from their parents and they're living in the world. So there haven't been really huge ways that it's affected them, but I do remember that right around the election. Right. Um, and there was one kid in his class. Anyone who's in the class knows exactly who I'm talking about that's listening to this, any of those parents. Um, there's one kid in the class, and he, I know who his parents are, and I know where they stand on some things. Um, and they scare me a little bit. Um and this kid will sometimes make some comments about some values that I don't want to repeat anything, but he'll say something, some things that are unkind. Okay. And my son is like, well, I don't understand why he would say that, because there's something wrong with being like this person. I'm like, you're right, there is nothing wrong, and this person is using it as an insult, and there's nothing, it's just silly. Like, why would you use that as an insult? Right. This is normal to be this way. And my son gets that. So it's very confusing to him to be like, Why would you use that as an insult? That's how some people live, or that's what some people believe, or whatever. Right. So it's been coming up in that way, in in ways that I I'm hoping are teaching tools. Right. Like in that way, he's learning, oh, some people are a little judgy and hateful and um yeah, homophobic and racist, you know. And so, like, that's not how we live. So that's confusing to him. Yeah. My kids had a couple months ago, they come home from school and they started using the word gay as an insult. Yeah, that's that's one thing that is happening. That was oh, full stop. That is not first of all, my sister's a lesbian, you know, so we sit down and we're like, listen, this was a word that is used to hurt. Like, there's nothing wrong with being gay, but when you make fun of something and make it a negative, yeah, that's not okay. And here's why, and here's how people have been harmed by that. And you know, and they they kind of really took it to heart. And then my other son came home a few weeks later and he's like, Mom, um, Timmy said, you know, something was gay. And I told him that we can't say that. Oh, I love that. And he said, and I told him we can't say it because they hurt Matthew Shepard. I'm like, okay, maybe. Oh my god. Yeah, that's kind of his download. You know, I love it. I love it. This is serious, but I Tim Young, yeah, I feel like when I was really like in my dark pit of political obsession, um, it did impact my kids because I was carrying so much anxiety and discomfort. I was very distracted. Yeah. I lost connect some connection with them and then maybe overshared my feelings. Yeah. Um, it felt important to me to impart my values to my kids, especially because I I know that I'm living in a community where I'm the minority and that they're gonna be fed a lot of stuff, or or you know, their friends have their opinions there, yeah, you know, different standards of households where you can go and say gay as a thing. Um and I is so now I I want to kind of take that off of them because they are children and it's not for them. Like it's up to us adults, and we're failing miserably, but it's up to us adults to make a safe world for for all of them to to grow up and grow into. Um let's see today. Yes, this is like a lot loaded, but I feel like yeah. So have you had any like friction moments come up where it did not go well with someone who was of an opposite opinion of you, that it it came up, you realized you were on different sides of the corner in the moment. Not online, you mean like in real life. Either or either or like, but like somebody who's in your real life, with whether it was computation online or okay yes, so there's one person who um it really did shift our our friendship because I saw something she was saying online, and I I kind of guessed like I should probably voted for him, but we don't talk about it. I don't want to talk about it because I felt like I was closer and we had a good friendship. And I saw something she said online and I was disgusted like how she talked about things, like how she talked about immigrants. Um, I was really disgusted and shocked like about the language she's using and things like that. So it really turned me off. And then we had a little back and forth um on Facebook, and it wasn't really mean or aggressive, but it was kind of like just challenging, I guess. Yeah. And I just realized um I just don't think I can have this person in my life. It didn't feel safe anymore. And one reason is because um of her stance on abortion. Okay. So yeah, I was like, do I wanna say this right now? Yeah. Um everybody knows my story now. If you listened to, you know, my whole infertility journey, and I never ever thought that I would terminate a pregnancy. I always thought I was always the kind of person that I believe in somebody else's right to choose. Absolutely that I would never choose that. Like so I was 20 years old, I'm having that baby. Like no matter what, I'm having this baby. I would never, and I thought of it as like ending a life, you know. I my personal views can be different than what I think everybody else has the right to do. And then I found myself in a real life situation where I was like, oh, I have to make an actual choice now. And it was, as I said, absolutely horrendous. And so because I lived through that and um it was, you know, one of the absolute hardest things I've ever been to, I just can't spend time with people that don't believe in that right. Absolutely. And that don't, and that would have judgment around me doing that. Like that's not someone that I can have close to me. Sure. That's like a hard line for me. Yeah. Um, so maybe other things I wouldn't feel that way about, but like that difference, I can't, it feels unsafe to me. Like it's just too it's too close of a trauma to me, you know, for someone to not, yeah, yeah, feel understand why, or not understand, but like, I don't know, the word I'm looking for, like empathy. Maybe empathy, or like if someone can't have some compassion or some empathy or anything resembling that about the fact that I had to make this choice that I didn't want to make, right, but I still have the right to and I'm not killing a baby, like you know, all of all of that, like for sure. It's hard for me to talk about it. But yeah, so like that's kind of a hard line for me. Yeah, yeah. So that one friendship was affected. Yeah. I had for for me, I was my my brother-in-law, and it's it's funny because his wife is progressive and I I don't know how they make it work. Um, but he very fast went very deep down the MAGA pipeline, and it was a post he had made kind of mocking the Me Too movement. And I don't know why, but I commented and I responded like, hey, like this is an experience that I had, and I shared something very personal and and traumatic, just like as food for thought. Like, please consider because I thought we had a good relationship, and I thought maybe me, a person that I thought he cared about sharing this thing would penetrate. And he made such a nasty response to me. So I I was stunned. I was stunned of his like immediate on friend.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

And do I st I still see him at occasions? But that's a good idea. Yeah. Because you chose ideology overhearing me, right? Over a human experience. You could have not someone that's right. I was just trying to share a perspective that you, A, as a man, wouldn't have. And B, just to say, hey, this happened to somebody that you care about. Um so it was, I mean, it was very hurtful because I actually really loved him. So it was it was very hurtful. I I felt like he was my big brother. Um and then uh yeah, so we just we've lost that relationship, but then because I lost that relationship, I kind of am not as close with my sister-in-law. Yeah, of course. And their their son is like the closest in age cousin that my boys have. So it's a real shame because they don't really have their cousin that they're growing up with my friend's kids or their cousins. They're they're frizens. Um, so it's it's sad, it's a shame, and it and it hurts, but they're yeah, there's certain lines that can't be crossed. And I think that's okay to have those lines and still keep an open heart and make relationship where you can.

unknown 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

This is the longest episode we've ever done. I you know what? I think it's so pressing for so many people. I think it's um on a lot of people's minds, and it's something that that we're all dealing with. Yeah. So thank you all for listening. I hope you're finding community where you are and building meaningful relationships. We're trying to build some community with this podcast. Absolutely. Us all joining together and having these conversations. So share it with people, share this with a friend if you think they might yeah. Because let's be honest like left, right, or centrist, we're all unraveling. So let's do it together. Exactly. We have way more in common than not right now. Absolutely. All right, guys, we'll talk to you next week. Okay, sounds good. Bye, brother.